Has good service left town?
Lately I’ve done a fair amount of work-related travel. In general this means eating at restaurants (instead of drive through food) and paying for wi-fi access (seriously, we’re like the ONLY place that gives it away!) I have noticed lately, as I eat out in Portland and compare my experience to other places I have been - well, I notice that the places I go in Portland don’t have such hot service.
I don’t always feel like I get good service in Portland. I do get good service sometimes, but I get it at places I have “earned” it, where I am there often enough to be recognized. I tip everybody reasonably well (20% or more as long as service wasn’t appallingly bad) and I’m not one to make special requests. I’m even willing to cut all kinds of slack for a kitchen backup or an overworked server, all of that is totally fine. And yet I sit, water glass empty, beverage glass empty, waiting for anyone to come so I can tell them my food is wrong or part of it is missing or that I still need the silverware I was promised when I sat down.
I don’t just mean this is the case at your bigger franchise joints, either. I get it from a lot of different places. Is there something I’m not realizing? Am I going to the wrong places? Is it really just ok in Portland to get ok service?
Related posts:
There’s no standard by which to hold service to in this city. The best you can hope for in most joints is friendly and attentive. This is to a certain extent an extension of Portland’s insatiable need for “casual”.
I’m still quite the newbie to the city (just got here in July) but my sister’s been here since 1992. She says service has always been terrible (but, then again, she was a Reedie and they always smell kinda funny which may have influenced the quality of service). Personally, I am a little perplexed how a town that has 2 restaurants to every 1 patron doesn’t have better service… go figure, eh?
Daaaaave, I have to disagree. There *ought* to be a minimum standard in place, no matter *how* casual the place. And I’d argue that it ought to aim for a higher bar than friendly and attentive.
Although there are plenty of times when I’d settle for one of the two, and end up with neither…!
Portland, Oregon: Worst. Service. Ever.
I’ve gotten kind of used to it over the years, but after my summer vacation out of state this year, I was reminded how much better it should be.
The only place you can get consistently decent service in this town is in the high-end foodie places. And even that’s hit-or-miss sometimes.
True story: my first job is Portland was as a server (I had a couple years experience coming into it). The first meal I served, I came back a few minutes later to check on it. The customers looked at me like I was crazy. Nobody checks back in this town! Even if they could up their tip by selling more drinks, or desert, or coffee!
Sheesh.
Amen, this town has terrible service when it comes to dining. I thought it was in my head, as my wife and I just moved here a few months ago. But it keeps happening, and my friends visiting from out of town agree. It is a terrible shame. In my homestate, waitstaff made 4.50 an hour, and lived off their tips. Here they get a higher than national minimum wage PLUS tips. They could be making some serious cash, all it takes is a little work and commitment to your customers.
I am a firm believer in doing your job and doing it well. I guess I am idealistic. I am not fond of most of the food I have had either…. but that is another debate…
I think the greater number of restaurants creates a bit of a problem — It’s a seller’s market when it comes to getting reliable servers, weakening the pool as it were. And I thought I was the only person with the bad-service-magnet gene…
Just to clarify, I didn’t say that there shouldn’t be a standard, I said there isn’t a standard, and part of it could probably be explained by the fact that we love everything casual, which would seemingly include the FOH’s approach to their job.
I’ve said it before folks, more and more places big and small are chasing the dollar. They are realizing that the public may bitch and moan but we are voracious consumers and will continue to spend our money even while getting poor service. It’s not like any of us are actually going to boycott a business until service improves so there is no motivation to provide us with good service.
That’s where you’re wrong, Mr Viddy. I am REALLY unlikely to go back to someplace where the service was bad. I always let them know why, too. But apparently I’m the only one.
And I tip VERY well where I get good service. Even though we aren’t one of the “three dollars an hour because you get tips” states, I still tip a LOT if I am well taken care of.
Name names, people! Where is the good service at?
Portland has, consistently, the worst service I’ve ever experienced in any major US city. I feel inordinately grateful when I get what would be baseline adequacy anyplace else.
I always feel like it’s a psychological thing here — that a lot of servers are trying to communicate that they’re too good for the job, that they have other things going on: I’m not really a server! I’m an artist!
The irony is that the national chains, which we all love to hate, are doing a better job training their employees than are the PDX-grown outfits.
Why don’t restaurateurs here take as much pride in providing top-notch service as they do in presenting top-notch ingredients?
Never worked in a restaurant but I’ve eaten in many,including in all the cities you’ve linked to (Chicago, ST. Louis, Toronto).
Overgeneralizing fer sure but the overriding issue is that a restaurant is only as efficient as its weakest link. So let me throw this meme out there:
Could it be service probs in *some* Portland restaurants are due to the fact that especially at this time of year, some staffers would rather be somewhere else?
Outdoors (we’re more outdoorsy than the cities you mention) sleeping off hangover from last night’s concert at (insert club name here), or who are basically in “this job sucks” mode as they wait for some position appropriate for their coolness?
Sometimes these factors result in absenteeism among servers, cooks and chefs. In turn absenteeism produces understandable inefficiencies among the short-staffed who actually came in to work that day.
I realize this ‘tude meme can be found in most other cities, but you might consider that some of the other burgs still have a patina Midwestern or Canadian politeness we may be losing.
Posted by: Russ at September 4,
I have a unique perspective on this issue, because I spent 10 years in the food service industry, and them moved into another service industry, the computer repair business. I own my own business, and will fully cop to this being a bit of shameless self-promotion, but I think it does illustrate a good point.
In 10 years of food service I’ve worked in a number of different states, and I’ve certainly gotten a good range of tips, from terrible to unbelieveable (one time got $100 on a $150 brunch tab. Man, they were drunk). But I always strove to give great service, and generally got tipped well.
In the last 7 years working in the computer service industry, I’ve tried to provide the same level of service. I always go the extra mile to explain things to customers, and never EVER try to put a fast one over on a customer. Yet I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve been tipped. I’d say once every 14-16 months.
What’s the difference? Nothing, in my mind. Just societal norms. You tip your server and your bellhop, you don’t tip your pc tech or your auto mechanic.
I think that if there is a place where people should feel free to tip solely based on the quality of service, Portland is it. Not only is there a minimum wage law for servers, but there is such an excess of restaurants that the good servers should have no problem finding a quality establishment to work for, and it’s always been my belief that the one thing that will kill a restaurant is high turnover from treating your employees poorly. If servers are having trouble providing good service because they aren’t getting the back-end support they need, they should jump ship.
But in general I think Americans need to rethink their tipping for service practices. There’s plenty of other service-based business enmployees that would probably really appreciate that $5/$20/$50 a hell of a lot more than someone who’s just come to expect it and isn’t really trying that hard for it anymore.
Oh, and BTW, I’m not sure about a recommendation for good service, but for the WORST IN PDX, give Montage a try.
“Left town?” Was it ever really here to begin with? I’ve never worked in the food industry myself, but from talking with friends, Portland is a little unique in the wait-staff pay scale. People get minimum wage, and we have one of the (if not THE) highest minimum wages in the country. Servers get paid that, flat out. In other states (California was the example I was given), servers actually get LESS than minimum wage and are expected that tips will make up the rest of it. (I’m not sure what happens if they don’t make tips, but that’s never been an issue with those friends that describe the situation to me.) So, at least in California, there’s incentive to put on a smile and provide excellent service. In Portland, people are going to be paid a living wage with our without a smile or attitude, so they just don’t care.
So that’s my second-hand $0.02.
I think you all are overstating Portland’s weak service relative to other cities. Portland is definitely less professional as you move up the price scale.
But then again, our prices top out much lower than other cities. Higher prices allow for hiring more staff, spending more on training, and insisting on a higher level of professionalism. So if you want better service, you might think about ordering something besides the burger at a semi-fancy restaurant.
However, I’d say that Portland does better relative to most big cities as you move down in price. NY has TERRIBLE service at the low end. People are flat out dickheads in your standard pizza joint, deli, hot dog stand, etc. In cities like Chicago, LA, and Houston, I think service somewhat falters at the low end because they rely on ultra-low-paid, ESL workers. Remember, Oregon has one of the highest minimum wages in the country and Portland is one of the whitest cities in the country. Your chances of getting a better educated worker who you can easily communicate with at the low end is much better here than elsewhere.
“Portland is one of the whitest cities in the country. Your chances of getting a better educated worker who you can easily communicate with at the low end is much better here than elsewhere.”
:::wiping hand down face:::
And I absolutely disagree with the supposition that LA, New York, and Houston have worse service at the low-end joints. Even if the servers aren’t all white.
Note, Kevin, that I didn’t just say white vs non-white. I made a point of connecting it to having a large number of staff that have English as a second language, which can make service problematic. Portland’s white population is just an indicator of the fact there aren’t that many immigrants here as compared with most big cities. And that has its advantages and disadvantages. Personally, I’d give up the problems in convenience at low-end places for a broader selection of restaurants and cultural activities.
I really have no complaints about Portland service. But in all cities and all restaurants it kind of goes like this:
Good management and communication is needed to ensure that servers know restaurant service expectations and performance issues if service expectations are not met.
Adequate staffing. This one is hard for restaurants with a tight margin. But it makes all the difference for potential return customers.
Oh, maaaaan. I’m pulling up a lawn chair and grabbing my popcorn after reading Nick’s priceless comment, ’cause the fun’s just about to begin!
NY has terrible service at the low end? That’s news to me, as someone who lived in the city for seven years, and still speaks daily with people who’ve been there for ages. For starters, NYC residents - or their employers, for that matter - won’t much tolerate poor service.
And attributing said poor service to the supposed language barrier? You’re kidding, right? It’s more likely, frankly, that we’d get better service here if we had “less educated” service workers here - instead of the ones we currently have who feel as if they’re wasting their college educations by waiting tables and/or never fail to let you know that they’re slumming while they wait for their big break.
Anyone that thinks the service in this town is abnormally bad needs to travel more. Depending on the place it can be anywhere from adequate to good. I have yet to find a place (and you can check my credit card bill to see how much I eat out) where you get anything approaching a New York/London/Paris/Montreal attitude. What you don’t tend to get is the “I love you, come back soon, have a nice day” crap that is everywhere in CA - and thank god for that.
Sherwood, you sound like a well-traveled fellow…I’d be interested to know your opinion of which Portland restaurants offer consistently good service.
Betsy, I just took three trips to New York over the last year just to tour restaurants, most of them low-end. I got a LOT of “what do you want”s and sighs when asking questions about what comes in this or that or how much something was. Many times people would just flat out ignore you unless you were a regular or friend. In NY, I found the attitude in low end places to be that the customer was cattle to be moved along.
i don’t get this at all. i’ve lived in the new york area, SF, portland and cleveland(ish), and “service” usually is just a reflection of the local culture.
i would say that service is no better or worse wherever you go, although in new york at more expensive places (and actually fucking annoyingly at midprice places) people are more FORMAL at restaurants.
is that better service? i guess some people might think so.
anyway, in conclusion, this thread has a buncha whiners in it.
oh, one parting shot. every time i have been out to diner with someone in my party who complained about the service, the person complaining was about 1/2 the time the one in the wrong.
so people who complain about “service”- check yourself. according to my scientific study, there is a 50/50 chance you are an ass.
holy cow, yea, also i gotta say, extramsg is spot on. there are lots of places in BIG CITIES where the service is downright HOSTILE. like actively so. amusingly so.
i have not found such a place in portland.
shalimar in SF? wow.
first of all, you wait on a big old unregulated line to find and bus your own table. usually people are good about working this line out. agree with eachother who is next… sometimes not. some people just stalk a table. cut the line and just stand behind people.
anyway, AFTER you get the table you are ALLOWED to go to the front counter and place an order.
first thing out of the dudes mouth is DO YOU HAVE A TABLE, YOU CANNOT PLACE AN ORDER WITHOUT A TABLE. note, he never, ever looks you in the eye. just looks off to the right and up slightly.
then you place your order, and he doesn’t say ANYTHING to you. you have no way of knowing if your order was heard correctly or not. and shit, DONT ASK A QUESTION. you will get no answer.
then you go get your own utensils, plates, water, etc.
then hopefully magically the order comes out OK.
there is no followup. you bus your own table or get the people behind you to do it.
is there a single place like that in portland? jeez. there are a million in other places.
IN OTHER WORDS. PORTLAND HAS FINE SERVICE.
whiners….
Sherwood: As a matter of fact my travels are what prompted me to post. I get taken care of better when I leave town than I do when I’m here.
I still haven’t heard from anyone where to get good service around here. Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
My tips reflect the level of service I feel I received. If everyone did the same, it would weed out the poor performing servers and reward the ones that do perform. I even tip at a buffet if I feel the folks went out of their way to make me happy.
Tip=reward for good service.
And by all means, report the level of service to management. Feedback goes a long way. Managers will assume service is just fine if nothing is said. Nothing will ever change if that’s the case.
BLFB, to answer your question: Toro Bravo. $ for $ the best service in Portland.
We’ve had aweful service in this city. Coming from one of the worste service cities in the nation, San Diego, I didn’t think service could get any worse. However the service in Portland, especially Lake Oswego has been horrible.
My boyfriend and I just moved to Portland from Southern CA. I’ve traveled throughout Europe and on up and down both coasts. I’d have to say that Portland’s service isn’t horrible; it’s just more European, very slow paced. I haven’t experienced any rude servers, just a little slower than usual and not quite as attentive as I’m used to. So for those of us that are used to fast paced service and dining and a big smile every time the server walks by (big requirement in southern CA food service), well I don’t think Portland, or even Oregon for that matter is the place for that. It may just be we all need to learn how to slow down a little. :)
My boyfriend and I just moved to Portland from Southern CA. I’ve traveled throughout Europe and on up and down both coasts. I’d have to say that Portland’s service isn’t horrible; it’s just more European, very slow paced. I haven’t experienced any rude servers, just a little slower than usual and not quite as attentive as I’m used to. So for those of us that are used to fast paced service and dining and a big smile every time the server walks by (big requirement in southern CA food service), well I don’t think Portland, or even Oregon for that matter is the place for that. It may just be we all need to learn how to slow down a little. :)
As eMSG points out, service at Toro Bravo has been stellar. Last night we were at Biwa, which has a similar approach in terms of pacing and portions, and service was efficient.
I agree that the service in Portland doesn’t really approach hostile, but I would classify it more as a malaise of nonchalance. There are smarmy dickheads, sure, but that ratio seems normalized to the population baseline in general.
Despite all the complaining about bad service, there’s also been historically some sort of masochistic love affair between the city and shitty service. Look at the devoted fans of the Vat and Tonsure, a joint that regularly provided the worst service in town. People swooned at being mocked and ridiculed by the waitstaff. “Oh look honey, they’re treating us so badly the food here must be EXCELLENT”. Look at the continued patience at Escape from NY pizza. Terrible pizza, but it’s served with “NY attitude” so it endures.
I usually avoid places where I know the service is going to suck. Montage prides itself on having crap service with attitude which I guess people find amusing. My friend and I went to Slow Bar one afternoon during the week because of all the hype about how great their hamburgers are. We waited half an hour for the waiter to stop chatting with the bartender and come to just give us menus. We finally gave up and walked out after it took another 15 minutes for him to come back and see what we wanted to order. We were one of two tables in the restaurant.
As far as “low-end” we’ve always had incredible service at the Scoreboard, no matter what time of day. Their food is decent and the staff pays attention. It’s not for everyone, but we know we can go in, immediately get served, and if it’s slow, chat with the bartenders.
As far as language barriers I’ve found the service much better at some of the family owned joints over in Southeast Portland run by people who are slowly learning English. The Malay Satay Hut by Fubonn is great, you get huge portions, and the service has been consistenly good and pleasant.
There’s a Vietnamese restaurant on the corner of SE 82nd and Bybee (sorry, I can never remeber the name)where we pretty much have to point to the menu because of the language barrier, but as soon as you walk in they seat you, bring you your tea and utensils, and we just sort of use sign language and nods to communicate. I’ve brought in extra mint from my friend’s garden for them because they are so sweet.
I guess the trick in this town is to find a place you like and maybe stick with it. It definitely helps being a regular at restaurants in Portland.
Is it just me, or is saying things like “service in Portland is terrible”, or “especially in Lake Oswego” without any specifics, pretty pointless?
Stephanie’s comment is one we should all probably take to heart:
“It may just be we all need to learn how to slow down a little. :)”
People, we just have to accept that the majority of businesses these days might claim to care about good customer service but it is just so much lip-talk. Sure, I have received extremely bad service from places and have never gone back but the problem of poor customer service is so widespread that most times I just have to suck it up.
You want an example of really terrible service, Winco on Cedar Mills in Beaverton. They have a few good clerks but most of my experiences there are awful.
Really good service can be found at the Starbucks at that location, they are great people. IMHO.
When we eat out (which is pretty regularly, as my clean oven can demonstrate), not only do we tip according to the level of service, but if we were pleased with the service, we make a point of verbally praising the server as we leave. Most of them act as if they don’t have many customers who bother. While I don’t doubt there are plenty of bad service stories, I can imagine there are also plenty of bad customer stories. Customers who treat the server like a human being instead of an automaton or a lackey *usually* get a better level of service, in my experience.
Nope, I’m not in the restaurant business, nor have I been bribed to say this by anyone who is. :)
“People, we just have to accept that the majority of businesses these days might claim to care about good customer service but it is just so much lip-talk.”
But this is not so much as the business as the server. You get better tips when give better service. I guess most servers in Portland haven’t tried it, so they don’t realize this.
Also, some of the more “casual” joints pool tips. This is bad, bad, very bad for service.
People, I apologize. I am such an ass. I thought the topic was in regards to customer service in general, not the restaurant industry specifically. I will pay closer attention next time. Once again, I apologize to everyone here.
Here’s a great link from Gridskipper to the Top Picks for London’s Worst Service. It makes Portland seem pretty nice in comparison.
http://gridskipper.com/travel/london/top-picks-londons-worst-service-296171.php
I have lived in PDX for a year, having moved from New England. The first thing I noticed about restaurants here was how much less expensive they were overall. The second and most glaring thing was the service. I won’t say it’s terrible, but I will say I have had to do a major shift in my expectations. I lived just outside the NYC area and if a restaurant had poor service it closed, period. There was no leeway. Here it seems that people are willing to tolerate much more.
I am by no means high maintainence when I go out. I merely expect to be seated, given a menu, have some water and have my order taken and food arrive in a timely fashion. I tip well if the server does a good job. If the customers here expected more and did not tolerate lousy service, maybe things would change. In the mean time I go out to places that I know and trust and that won’t leave me sitting at a table hungry or waiting.
I moved here ten years ago after 27 years in the South. Everyone says Portland is so nice, but I’ll tell you that nice doesn’t mean good service nor does it mean good manners. It took me about two years to adjust and now it’s sad that I don’t expect a please or thank you. The food is good and cheap, though.
SETYA:
“I have lived in PDX for a year, having moved from New England. The first thing I noticed about restaurants here was how much less expensive they were overall. The second and most glaring thing was the service.”
Have you ever considered that the two things might be connected? If not that the owners can’t afford the staff that would be required to give you equal service, then at least that Portlanders are more interested in price than other factors.
MR VIDDY:
Um, you’re going to the cheapest grocery store in the metro area, Winco, and complaining about service? I’m reminded of a project manager’s mantra: “I can do it fast. I can do it cheap. I can do it good. Now pick two.” There’s an old saying: you get what you pay for.
HIMSELF:
Lots of restaurants, both low and high end in Portland, pool tips. And I can tell you that you can’t judge by who has good service and who doesn’t. Each way has their advantages. Servers are more likely to jump in and help out on someone else’s table if tips are pooled.
But also, it’s worth noting that the business does have some significant blame for bad service. It’s their training and their management that sets the expectations for service.
KAI
It’s Bun Bo Hue, one of my favorites:
http://www.extramsg.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=420
However, I’d note that most people would probably consider having to point and use primitive sign language to order a bad thing and a negative service-wise. No one would put up with it in a restaurant where entrees cost $30.
And I’ve had some pretty poor service at Malay Satay Hut. The manager guy there has been a total ass to me sometimes and some of the staff is surprisingly ignorant of Malay food. Again, not a big deal at $10, but if you were paying $30. Huge portions and low prices aren’t good service. They’re what often make up for mediocre or poor service.
EXTRAMSG,
I figure with it only being $6.50 for a huge bowl of yummy soup and $3.50 for three huge spring rolls, a little bit of pointing and nodding is just fine. Thanks for giving me the name of the restaurant!
You don’t have to smile, look me in the eye or make small talk. Just get my order right and refill my drink once or twice.
Well its funny how many people think the service industry is so glamorous-that we make wage and tips. TIPS: To insure prompt service….that doesn’t mean leaving $1.00 on $25 and expecting to have a personal servant in a business environment with many clients. How many of you have office jobs and talk on the phone. How many of your customers or clients can you serve at once. I agree Portland for the most part has a lack of service, but if your consistently getting the same crappy service and regular spots I bet you 9 times out of 10 you have something to do with it.