I don’t like the Roseland theater
I am hesitating from saying hate because I know sometime in the future, I will probably be back there and there’s some venue karma I have to keep in tact. The other evening, we ventured out for what a friend called a “holiday tradition.” Yep, the annual Dandy Warhols show. I’ve been pretty excited for the past month to see them and they put on a great show. Granted, the acoustics in the Roseland are no Doug Fir, but once again, I’m reminded that this is a tradition and traditions aren’t always perfect. Yet….
I don’t like the Roseland theater. One main reason is that it is all ages. I understand the youngin’s want to see their favorite bands too and I also understand that I’m getting older and maybe more intolerant. But dammit, I want to enjoy the show also without being kicked in the head by some 9 yr old crowd surfer. The Roseland has a pretty large standing area for people to congregate. If you are a shorter individual, your screwed as many a tall concert goer (myself included, but not intentional) usually end up standing right in front of you. If your 21 or older, you can venture upstairs to the firetrap waiting to happen and try and get a seat. (That is one thing I hate about all ages venues. The ones buying the drinks are always relegated to the shitty parts of the venue even though that money drives the business.) Also, at the Roseland, the bar is smaller than my desk and so crowded that once you get your drink, your 70% likely to spill it because someone bumps into you in the close quarters. There is never enough room to actually enjoy the show. Oh, and let me rant about the kids. Yep, kids. Seriously, do you have to crowd surf at every concert you go to? Jeebuz! This was the Dandy Warhols, not Fugazi. Also, running around jumping on stage to give the lead singer a glow bracelet is not cool. Think about how the performer feels with you barreling toward him not having any clue if you are friend or foe. Oh, and if you come with 20 of your best friends, get there a little earlier to secure your spot close to the stage so you aren’t pushing your way through the crowd in the middle of a song wreaking havoc.
Jimminy Christmas, I’m a curmudgeon here, but dammit, for $20, I want to enjoy a show and not be distracted by kids. I guess I just need to relax and realize I have many more choices than the kids have when seeing music in this town. I should be glad for the Doug Fir, Dantes, Berbatis, Kelly’s, East End, you name it. There are plenty of other places I can go to enjoy music without having to feel like a babysitter. Ok, haters take me to task.
Oh, and a photo from the show:
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I completely agree. I went to a show at the Roseland when I first moved to Portland a little over two years ago and haven’t been back since for the exact reasons you lay out here.
I hate to be the crusty old guy (not even that old), but damnit, i work hard for my money and loathe when the enjoyment of spending it is interupted by those who do not recognize other’s right to exist and take up space.
Don’t forget the over-zealous security as well. However, I like the Roseland better than the Crystal Ballroom. That place has a horrible design and a piss-poor sound system.
A coworker of mine was at that show. His girlfriend and him made the mistake of standing up near the stage and spent the entire time arguing with pushy teenagers that kept trying to shove their way to the front. It ruined the evening for them.
That said, I actually like the Roseland. While the balcony is a death trap, the layout is great. Poor floor plans drag down shows at the Crystal Ballroom and the Doug Fir Lounge. The Doug Fir feels like someone’s basement and the sound-board area or whatever it is in the middle of the room ruins the view from the bar. Great ambiance though.
Still, it’s not as bad as the Crystal, with its tiny stage shoved into the corner and a gigantic stairwell that takes up around a quarter of the dance floor. Making matters worse, the room is divided down the center, awkwardly separating the all ages and over-21 sections. If I was running the place I’d keep drinking limited to the balcony or turn it into an over-21 venue.
My favorite venue in town: The Wonder Ballroom. It’s big, it’s open and the sight lines are great.
Well I guess somebody has to state the obvious: If you don’t like kids at concerts, maybe you shouldn’t go to kid music concerts.
But the Roseland? It’s always been skeezy, going back to its days as Starry Night (a.k.a. Scary Night) under the murderous tutelage of Larry Hurwitz. It and its sister club Day for Night had the most bizarre, sinister vibe, and the Roseland hasn’t been able to shake that feeling all these years later.
I played with Ike Willis at Day for Night back in ‘89 or ‘90 and remember being completely vibed out by Hurwitz’ brother-in-law (I think that was the relation) who ran the place and the working girls hanging out at the bar.
Then there was the Commander Cody show at the Roseland… ah, never mind, I’m digressing.
Brandon, you got me there. Yes, the Wonder is a great place to see shows. Well said.
But to dis the Doug Fir? I challenge you to Feats of Strength. I can’t say a negative thing about the music venue they have. To me, it is one of the best in the city.
Uh Steve, wait a minute. I wouldn’t say the Dandys are a “kids show.” They have been around longer than some of those kids have been alive. Granted, I do accept that they are more pop and mainstream now then they ever have been getting songs on hit CW shows and now maybe even an Oscar nomination. But a “kid’s band?”
Oh, and I hope Jim comes by and comments as he was there the night of the murder…. Jim?
Lots of venue talk the last few days - cool! I think the Doug Fir is overrated. I’ve seen a couple good shows there, but I don’t really dig it. Maybe it was all the hype about how it was going to be the coolest venue ever and all that. You have to earn coolness, folks - don’t shove it down our throats. The venue could be laid out better, but I’m more annoyed by the upstairs restaurant, a bridge and tunnel crowd nightmare with over-priced mediocre food.
I’ve been at plenty of shows where the adults are drunken idiots, screaming “WOOOOOOO!!!” during a quiet moment of a performance or talking through the entire set.
Thus, I don’t see any reason to blame bad behavior on someone’s age.
Also, the Doug Fir is my favorite venue in the city. If you’re at the bar in that venue, you’re not there to see the show.
The Roseland is a way better place than it was in the old Starry Night days. Back then it had no air flow and was exceptionally dirty. I remember seeing some shows in the summer and just about suffocating for lack of air movement. So I feel better about it now. Still, it amazes me that people prefer this place to the Crystal. The Roseland’s sound isn’t much better and the security sucks big time.
I find the best place to be at the Roseland when the show is crowded is up in the balcony, standing along the wall on either side of the room. Good sight lines, only the occasional bump from a drunk lurching towards their seat and not bad sound.
I haven’t ever experienced kids at the Roseland as young as what you describe. Thank god, I guess.
Finally, I have to comment on the Wonder. It suffers the same lack of air movement. I saw the Drive By Truckers there this past summer. Forget about dancing. It was about a 110 degrees with no air movement. How hard is it to at least position some fans around the room?
Can you tell I’ve got an issue with air flow at clubs?
Pete, you are so correct. There was a lot of hype and probably still is. Also, upstairs sucks balls unless you are maybe catching some food after a show, then it isn’t that bad.
But I have been going to the venue downstairs since it opened and have seen some great bands and heard some amazing music. We saw the Cave Singers there and then again at Dantes. The Doug Fir’s sound was leaps and bounds ahead of Dantes and you don’t have to deal with smoking. To each his own. The Doug Fir to me is one of Portland’s best.
Random, you make a great point. Idiots of all ages make shows less enjoyable for me. Perhaps those of a younger age might have a higher propencity to do so, but definately it is not confined to that group.
Are you kidding? Watching the young uns at the Roseland is a BIG part of its appeal! Seeing a metal act (Celtic Frost, for example) or the Misfits or the Dropkicks or X and watching the kids go nuts? I adore that aspect of the Roseland. Now, the bathroom’s another matter entirely (Motorhead show with the literal river of piss running down the center of the room, anyone?) and I don’t even bother with the bar there, instead getting drinks someplace like the Shanghai prior. Sitting upstairs in the old folks’ section or getting down floor level and showing some kids how it’s done - those win it over for me.
Yes, the sound could be better, they could have some ventilation, the security is silly, but those are either temporary or avoidable or wane in comparison to its benefits, I think.
(And I think we need a “best place to see a show in Portland” thread/rant/sounding board separately.)
Dieselboi: I don’t know if I’m up for any Feats of Strength but I will debate you on the merits of the Doug Fir’s basement. Sure, the decor is great and the acoustic are probably the best of any small venue in town but it’s unbearably tiny.
In addition to the large soundboard/whatever in the middle of the room, there’s barely any space up front. The wheelchair ramp, the stairs and a side seating area suck up vital space. I saw the Go! Team over there in October and the show at least seemed oversold. People were practically stacked on top of one another. Dancing wasn’t an option and attendees were leaning and sitting on the rails of the ramp. One of them was bumped by two people shoving their way towards the stage, resulting in a spilled rum and coke that hit my shoes. The stage was too small for the band (they have something like 7 members) and, if I remember correctly, the DJ had to spin records from backstage. And then someone up by the stage broke out a jumprope and started swinging it around madly over everyone’s heads…
It would be a great venue for a smaller crowd but the Doug Fir just can’t handle anything over, say, 300 people.
Oh man, this thread reminded me of the days when Roseland/Starry Night was completely sealed and a all smoking venue. At this week’s Dandy show I kept thinking something was wrong, then I realized that I could breathe.
I sometimes enjoy the energy of all ages shows, but both Wonderland and the Crystal do better job of keeping the bar side more civilized. I know what I in for at these all ages venues. If I really want to be close to the artists and civilized, I head to a smaller club where I can sit down and have a cocktail. My wife is 5-2 and I always feel sorry for her at the stand all night shows.
BTW. The night of the infamous murder at Starry Night was the worse crowding ever because the kid who was killed was selling duplicate bootlegged tickets. I got so pissed off I called the fire dept from a pay phone. Yup, they showed up and hassled the owner. Good times…..
Ok Brandon, I’ll give it to you about the Doug Fir. It’s a wee on the tiny side - not suitable for bigger bands, nor more popular/mainstream bands.
For example, the BRMC show a few years back, while it sounded great and the crowd was respectful, you literally could not move more than 3 inches in any direction. Frankly, it kind of put me on edge (what if I had to go to the bathroom?! What if someone needed to throw up? Please don’t have a fire right now!!). Ironically, we saw them a few years earlier at the Starry Night in the downstairs bar play to a crowd of 14 and that was awesome, and again at a sold out show at the Wonder (whose acoustics impressed me but I totally agree with the stifling lack of a/c).
But I absolutely adore that the Doug Fir is an intimate venue. I LOVE the immediate, all consuming connection of the band with the audience as soon as the first note is played. Some of my favorite shows at the Doug Fir were sparsely attended and felt pretty much like the band was playing exclusively for me! It’s spoiled me completely I guess.
Not that I won’t go see shows elsewhere, don’t get me wrong! For me, live music is where it’s at, and I will follow it virtually anywhere! I’m impressed with the new space at Kelly’s Olympian (it’s probably a third of the size of the DF - I obviously have a preference for small venues).
At this point, I do believe my Roseland Theater days are behind me, however. I got to thinking the other night as I was being body slammed, cursed out by security and generally turned off at being on the floor of the Roseland that MAYBE, if I EVER go to the Roseland again, I MIGHT enjoy myself if I got there early and secured a seat upstairs with the grownups and cemented myself into senior-citizenhood forever.
oh duh, we saw BRMC at the ROSELAND bar, not when it was the Starry Night. Oops.
Brandon, yes, when a band is larger than 4-5 members or they do acrobatics on stage, the Doug Fir isn’t the venue for them. In my opinion, that isn’t the fault of Doug Fir, but of the booking agent. They should know The Go Team requires dance space and some stage room.
So, new question - where is everyone going to see a show this weekend?
The Twilight over on 14th & Powell…it’s returning to booking rock bands and tonight is some doom metal from our friends ‘Wheel of Pain’
All my Doug Fir bashing aside, I am VERY tempted by the New Years Eve Camper Van Beethoven/Cracker show…
Ok, so maybe the Doug Fir isn’t so bad. I’ve been there twice and both times it was for overcrowded, sold-out shows. On a quieter night when you can grab a seat on the side or stand up front without getting shoved around, it’s probably great.
While I hate the Crystal’s stage setup, the Roseland just isn’t really laid out well, but what do you expect for a venue that started out as holy roller Church. Saw the Black Keys perform there and it was a great experience. The security there is a downer, but if I had its past I’d have a lot of security too.
Doug Fir I think is hand’s down the best venue in town, that said the crowd for the Restaurant and basement are never in sync. When I went to the Shaky Hands show during Music Fest NW there were a lot of Couv like folks clogging the outdoor smoking area with their wine glasses in hand.
dieselboy is now officially known as diesel_old_man. yet, i concur that roseland has always been one of my lesser desired music locales.
The more I think about it… aladdin really is the best venue in town. Theater seating, so everyone has a view and acoustics can be great if the sound engineer knows what they are doing.
yesyes, dougfir is good, but crowding is WAY to much of an issue for a popular show.
long live aladdin.
Dear divebarwife you mentioned the “Twilight over on 14th & Powell” is that the old deep throat theater just south of Powell on milwaukie av next to the violin shop? We blew the hi end out of there house and monater speakers way back when hehehe oops hehehe.
As for the roseland if your a true portlander you’ll remember that Andrew “DICE” Clay filmed it in the movie “the brain smasher” way back when.
Being sort of new to PDX, I don’t have a long history of going to shows here. However, I assume that at every show there will be something/someone who might be a bother. This could be 20 somethings being overly boisterous, people getting too drunk and acting like obnoxious jerks, those who insist on talking during quiet songs (this REALLY frosts my arse), and the list goes on…
I’m willing to put up with all of because I love live music, no matter where it is. I will say I love the Wonder Ballroom best, good sound and its neither too big nor too small. Doug Fir is great, just saw The Blow there, so excellent. The Crystal is, eh. A bit big for my taste.
Dodgeram = no, that’s the Aladdin…the Twilight is about 2 blocks east, a small cafe/bar that used to do rock shows, a year or 2 ago switched to doing jazz or crappy blues or something, but is now back to some rock.