Pioneer Courthouse Square Inc. - today’s asshat
I was watching the new this evening and there is a report that the weekly anti-war protest at Pioneer Square may be in for a fine. Pioneer Courthouse Square Incorporated who run the square (a public space I remind you) believe the protester’s use of a battery powered blowhorn violates Portland’s noise ordinance. Are you fucking serious? This is a group of 20, maybe 30 people who get together once a week now going on 6 years and only now someone is raising hackles about a lowly blowhorn? Even on the live newscast you can’t hear it.
The powers that be claim this isn’t motivated by politics or anything, but I call bullshit on that. I bet if there were a Christian gathering every week with an electric guitar, there wouldn’t be an issue. Also, how many times do you walk around that area and someone has a powered amp or is screaming at the top of their lungs about something or another?
Obviously this is a result of a complaint of some sort (Starbucks anyone?). Yet, to go after peaceful protesters is just wrong. This is still America isn’t it? There are plenty of other issues the Pioneer Courthouse Square Inc should work on like maybe those damn pillow fights.
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Dieselboi I hate to burst your bubble BUT there is a NOISE ordinance in the city in a past life I worked for a hotel down at the airport and the laundry had to shut down between the hours of 10PM to 8AM and as a private person “you” can’t start and test run your funny car/dragster in your driveway “too much noise”.
Oh by the way your comment “I bet if there were a Christian gathering every week with an electric guitar, there wouldn’t be an issue.” there would be cause being a christian is a bad thing these days I know of one raido personality a few years back tried to get a christian cross down there over the “christmas” season and he got death threats because of it.
Total bullshit. I speak as a decorated vet who’s actually served overseas (unlike say, every Republican asshat who favors war yet complains about people actually exercising their freedom of speech and right to assemble).
And the right of peaceful protesters - in the always hectic Pioneer Square no less! - is *exactly* the freedom I fought to protect.
Noise Ordinance? The protesters are no louder than the trains, crazy punk kids, street people, vendors, families shopping with kids, etc in the always noisy and hectic Pioneer Square.
And these peaceful protesters aren’t protesting between 10pm and 8am - nor are they protesting in someone’s private driveway or driving around a residential area.
For you to try (and fail) your illogical argument against free speech and the right to assemble shows that you clearly hate our Constitution and American Freedoms.
Are you a Communist? A Terrorist? A Taliban or al Qaeda? You must be if you don’t support American Freedom…DodgeRam!
Please tell me that lame name is a joke. ;)
p.s. That Radio DJ just his “Cross stunt” just to get you to listen to the show. So obtuse, it’s sad…
It sounds like they don’t want bullhorns, period, and are going about it in a passive-aggressive way. A few months back, I was in PS when a small group of Christian fringies were doing a fire-and-brimstone bullhorn session (the message: fight poverty, embrace your brother and live as Jesus would live. Oh, who am I kidding: it was Gays Are Bad). I’d wager they want to get rid of those people more than anyone, and banning bullhorns is the way they’re going about it.
I remember when they banned smoking in the square, which wasn’t exactly a butt-strewn smoke-filled room. Almost immediately the street kids (most of whom seem to smoke) started hanging out across the street and down by Pioneer Place, and I realized that the smoking issue was a, well, smokescreen for getting the gutterpunks out of the square.
Since the kids just moved across the street to smoke, why wouldn’t bullhorn protestors of any stripe simply do the same thing to escape the aegis of Pioneer Incorporated?
Last I checked, Pioneer Square is a public place.
So sure these folks could move across the street (to a Republican-fenced “Free Speech Zone,” Kevin?) But why should they have to?
Because your idea is exactly what corporate interests want - to gradually and almost imperceptibly keep moving “undesirables” out of our line of site until they only reside on the far fringes.
Can’t just put these folks on a bus to a Gitmo in Gresham. Well, not in one move anyway.
Nope, I agree with matt. (well, not the rude stuff to dodgeram) But people fight for these freedoms overseas. We need to support them here and now.
Dodge Ram, I am well aware of noise ordinances, yet a lowly blowhorn has little in common with a laundry truck or some kid’s tricked out Honda from Gresham. Let’s stay on point.
I was watching the live feed and they were using the blowhorn and you could barely hear it. That is why I believe this is motivated by something else and not the “noise ordinance.” If the noise ordinance were truly the reason, Portland Patrol would be out and about shutting down the corner performers and I haven’t seen that since 2002 or so.
And I’m not trying to bash Christians. I’m just so worked up that our nation is about the elect a president based on religion and nothing else. That scares the fuck out of me. But truly, in this Christian nation, if there was a weekly gathering of Christians not protesting, but maybe singing or praying or just celebrating something, there would probably be no issue. There is an issue because people are saying something against the establishment.
First off sorry about the double post I forgot to add some thing and on my end it was still loading and tried to stop it but it looked like it didn’t work. But my main point is there are laws on the books that the city should enforce equality but THEY DON’T it seems to me that they pick which ones they want to enforce today then pick another one tomorrow so it looks like the “city” was in a bad mood when they hassled them.
BTW it was not a DJ, it is a talk show host that’s a conservative republican.
Escape, read my comment again. That’s not what I want, and the whole notion of “free speech zones” is a joke. (And I’m not clear on what a “Republican fence” is.)
I’m sure the interests that run Pioneer Square would be happy for it to have the ambiance of a family-friendly shopping mall, with that soupçon of “weirdness” that would let them pretend it was some sort of authentic experience. As far as I’m concerned, it could be nothing but a Speaker’s Corner with everyone in the city having his or her say.
But I’m still not clear on why, if someone was blocked from bullhorning in the square and didn’t feel like fighting it…well, what would stop him or her from walking across the street and doing it there?
Thanks for taking the time to respond, Kevin. I’d bet we’re in the same general mindspace.
Nothing is stopping the protestors from moving across the street. Or maybe they should move to another neighborhood? Or perhaps they should move to another city.
You see, by you saying protestors should move out of a *public* space, you’re advocating the same thing as Republicans who enforce “free speech zones.” Move these folks out of our line of site. But do it gradually so we barely realize it.
And this is exactly what the corporate interests want - to move out of center and marginalize anything they don’t agree with.
And by it happening incrimentally - like moving from a public space we all share to simply cross the street - people are marginalized so slowly we don’t even realize it’s happening until it’s too late. Like the poor frog sitting in a pot of water brought to a boil… :)
If you truly don’t understand this, I’m sorry. But I know that the internet can be a challenging environment for discourse. So either way good luck and happy new year.
We all know how big that place is and to be honest I don’t know how depending on what time of day this happened how any one can hear any thing one person can say with out shouting at the top of there lungs or using a bullhorn for a small group of 10-30 people.
Dear Matt
All I was saying was that there is “noise rules” in this city, I was not saying that they where or where not breaking the rules, as for the news reports I could not hear a word they were saying over the reporter so what I think is some one did not like what they where saying and called in the noise police.
Believe me, you can hear a bullhorn for blocks. The acoustics downtown are wonderful.
I’m all for enforcing noise ordinances, I’d love the area around the Square to be a little more tranquil, but for God’s sake, enforce the rules even-handedly. Don’t single out the protesters and ignore the idiot with the electric guitar and amplifier turned to 11, the hippies pounding on drums, or just the people screaming at the top of their lungs.
The protest march comes in pretty damn low on my list of audible annoyances.
FWIW, I saw a Portland police officer remove the screaming preacher from the park blocks near the Wednesday farmers market last year. The officer gave the guy a chance to quiet down, he kept screaming, and the officer escorted him away. (This guy was loud without a bullhorn. I stepped out of the art museum and I could hear him.) So the noise ordinance may not be consistently enforced but if there is a complaint, the police do respond, regardless of the message.